tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post115599561331340323..comments2024-01-18T11:30:45.737-05:00Comments on Les Politiques: A majority of Israelis are unhappy with the ceasefireUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156173338056691952006-08-21T11:15:00.000-04:002006-08-21T11:15:00.000-04:00Behemoth,The Palestinians blew themselves up out o...Behemoth,<BR/><BR/>The Palestinians blew themselves up out of despair and it was not an intelligent thing to do.<BR/><BR/>I was glad to read from you that you are for a one state solution a secular state for all its citizens, jews or Muslims or Christians. I would be the first person to ask for a citizenship in such a state. However I don,t understand the Judeo-Christian thing. I still believe Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156169593441932052006-08-21T10:13:00.000-04:002006-08-21T10:13:00.000-04:00Furthermore, the Palestinian people could unify ov...Furthermore, the Palestinian people could unify over a common goal - the establishment of a bi-national state, if they realized that their temporary collective sufferings would bring long-term peace and empowermeant to their people indefinitely.<BR/><BR/>It's certainly a better alternative than blowing oneself up.Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156169234703451902006-08-21T10:07:00.000-04:002006-08-21T10:07:00.000-04:00And morally speaking, at least from a Judeo-Christ...And morally speaking, at least from a Judeo-Christian standpoint - it is on the wrong-ED to forgive the wrong-ER (Jacob & Esau, Jesus) - that is the only way for positive reconciliation to take place.Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156168983905474102006-08-21T10:03:00.000-04:002006-08-21T10:03:00.000-04:00An outside-imposed peace is never a real peace. L...An outside-imposed peace is never a real peace. Look at any of the Western European wars in the past two centuries - such a peace has to be willed from within the countries affected.Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156157629159425262006-08-21T06:53:00.000-04:002006-08-21T06:53:00.000-04:00B,Palestine is more like the situation in South Af...B,Palestine is more like the situation in South Africa not India. <BR/><BR/>Britain was also in decline as an empire and was exiting all its colonies. Empires in decline are very vicious in their colonies.<BR/><BR/>Are the conditions right to mobilize the Jewish mothers and who in Israel is to undertake this task? The peace movement is in disarray.<BR/><BR/>Another strategy is needed. The West Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156135863833003792006-08-21T00:51:00.000-04:002006-08-21T00:51:00.000-04:00I still don't see the Israeli "painful past" and "...I still don't see the Israeli "painful past" and "superhumanizing condition" as being unique. The British colonial force felt like it was traumatized by the experience of "socializing all those barbaric Samis" - they had just been through WWI and WWII also with their own fair share of injustices.<BR/><BR/>Just the same, the Dutch and English S. Africans were traumatized and acted in their own Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156119775844147372006-08-20T20:22:00.000-04:002006-08-20T20:22:00.000-04:00It is not that non-violence has not been tried in ...It is not that non-violence has not been tried in Palestine. It has but the Israelis have a policy of confronting these demonstrations and acts with violence. They have complete control over the prisons/concentration camps and can spin events at their pleasure. Rachel Corrie is a good example<BR/><BR/>I am for nonviolence too but to be successful it has to be a movement that involves Jews and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156118842306221122006-08-20T20:07:00.000-04:002006-08-20T20:07:00.000-04:00Behemoth,Morally speaking, the burden is always on...Behemoth,<BR/>Morally speaking, the burden is always on the powerful to decrease tensions and violence and you are telling me that the burden is on the people of religion and faith. This is like resolving global warming by only individual intiatives without energy and economic policies and the involvement of the states. <BR/>The decrease of tensions in the region is the burden of Israel and theSophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156105826176415022006-08-20T16:30:00.000-04:002006-08-20T16:30:00.000-04:00"the respect of Human rights should be the startin..."<I>the respect of Human rights should be the starting point of any solution</I>"<BR/><BR/>Sophia, don't be so silly as to think that the civil rights movements in India, South Africa, America had no major group religious overtones. You cannot defy the laws of man if you don't believe God is on your side (the side of tolerance).<BR/><BR/>I am all about the separation of church and state at the Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156104977103524602006-08-20T16:16:00.000-04:002006-08-20T16:16:00.000-04:00Behemoth, Again I asked specifically what can be m...Behemoth, <BR/>Again I asked specifically what can be made to reduce the level of violence Israel is inflicting on Arabs, Palestinians and lebanese and i didn,t get an answer.Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156104722213006662006-08-20T16:12:00.000-04:002006-08-20T16:12:00.000-04:00Behemoth,I think while we agree on the principle o...Behemoth,<BR/>I think while we agree on the principle of non violence, your appreciation of the situation in the ME does not match mine. It is totally erroneous to think that Palestinias are in an intseresting situation, they are in a dead end.<BR/>Your solution to non violence appeals to Christians and muslims and more or less jews. I think if religions were to play a role, the jews being part Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156103613553212792006-08-20T15:53:00.000-04:002006-08-20T15:53:00.000-04:00Sophia,You mustn't doubt the power of non-violence...Sophia,<BR/><BR/>You mustn't doubt the power of non-violence to awaken long-dormant humaneness in the oppressor.<BR/><BR/>Palestinians are in a very interesting situation right now - they are in many ways like the Indian occupation by the British. Similarly, they face indiscriminate killings for "partisan behavior," second-class citizenship, racism, cultural/religious shame, from all the world Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156100242873948232006-08-20T14:57:00.000-04:002006-08-20T14:57:00.000-04:00behemoth,Can you convince Israel and the Israelis ...behemoth,<BR/>Can you convince Israel and the Israelis of ,not stopping, but reducing the level of their violence ? Anf how can we do so ? <BR/>I think it is more useful to work toward this goal because the amount of violence coming out from this side and its impact on the region is huge !Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156099283528211712006-08-20T14:41:00.000-04:002006-08-20T14:41:00.000-04:00Behemoth,When I was a child and a young woman in L...Behemoth,<BR/>When I was a child and a young woman in Lebanon, vengeance was still practised and not always legally sanctioned and punished. people will commit a crime and dissolve in Nature, hide from authorities.<BR/>During the civil war, many crimes were due to old feuds between people, nothing to do with actual sectarian fighting and there were many crimes inside one homogenous community.<Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156098114689755632006-08-20T14:21:00.000-04:002006-08-20T14:21:00.000-04:00Gert,Thanks for your comment. I think the dust ha...Gert,<BR/>Thanks for your comment. I think the dust has settled on our old misunderstanding now, which has nothing to do with our different points of view but with the way they were handled by both of us at some point. <BR/>I, however, still appreciate your comments. Lets hope that the recent war will teach us all, but most importantly, the parties in this conflict, how to get out from this Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156097952607031692006-08-20T14:19:00.000-04:002006-08-20T14:19:00.000-04:00Sorry about all the comments---I should also say, ...Sorry about all the comments---<BR/><BR/>I should also say, that early Christianity demonstrated non-violent movements at its outset. There was no major Christian civil uprising in Rome, it was a glorious, revolution that permeated from the roots all the way to the core of the state. Granted, the Christians had to endure their fair share of violence themselves - but that's what I'm talking Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156097757450837152006-08-20T14:15:00.000-04:002006-08-20T14:15:00.000-04:00...I also forgot Christians, etc....I also forgot Christians, etc.Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156097698073969552006-08-20T14:14:00.000-04:002006-08-20T14:14:00.000-04:00... furthermore, Sophia, you say the words "I am f...... furthermore, Sophia, you say the words "I am for non-violence," but you've hardly convinced me.<BR/><BR/>Start looking to the lessons of the past in non-violent resistance for solutions, or alternatives. Don't praise those who exacerbate the situation - Israel or America or the UN or Hezbollah or Hamas or PA.<BR/><BR/>Massive non-violent mobilization is required. People need to be Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156097392477403692006-08-20T14:09:00.000-04:002006-08-20T14:09:00.000-04:00Your understanding of world history and cultures i...Your understanding of world history and cultures is good, Sophia, but I disagree with two arguments that you made along your circuitous statement:<BR/><BR/>1. <I>"while VENGEANCE in Lebanon is a duty and a 'value' entrenched in traditional Lebanese values..."</I><BR/><BR/>Says who? Vengeance is a human foible, it is a cultural institution for peoples perhaps like the Pashtun in Afghanistan, but Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156093896766510902006-08-20T13:11:00.000-04:002006-08-20T13:11:00.000-04:00"They are living in a mythological world made of '...<I>"They are living in a mythological world made of 'righteous' biblical rights, 'absolute' force and 'moral' entitlement."</I><BR/><BR/>Looking at the Israeli blogosphere and the comments I've been receiving I would say you are entirely correct: most (but not all) Israelis live in a fantasy world, detached from reality. Very sad... Things are likely to get worse before the get any better in the Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156089928599743322006-08-20T12:05:00.000-04:002006-08-20T12:05:00.000-04:00Issam, Behemoth,Hezbollah did not participate ine ...Issam, Behemoth,<BR/><BR/>Hezbollah did not participate ine the Lebanese civil war while all other politicians in lebanon did. Hezbollah did not retaliate against Lebanese families of the SLA soldiers after Israel withdrawal in 2000 while VENGEANCE in Lebanon is a duty and a 'value' entrenched in traditional Lebanese values. Hezbollah participated in the Lebanese political process, stood with a Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09577807573716384982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156084901968720812006-08-20T10:41:00.000-04:002006-08-20T10:41:00.000-04:00Issam, you make good points.Remember, though, non-...Issam, you make good points.<BR/><BR/>Remember, though, non-violent movements have succeeded where no other option seemed possible. Quit India and the American Civil RIghts Movement accomplished things that non-violent partisans could never dream, when such groups were at their heights in the respective nations. <BR/><BR/>Then again, and with the sobering hindsight that history affords us, we Texas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156083915861963822006-08-20T10:25:00.000-04:002006-08-20T10:25:00.000-04:00Roxie, there is no military solution to this confl...Roxie, there is no military solution to this conflict. Anyone who thinks so has another agenda .<BR/><BR/>It is now the Islamist turn to take on the Zionists. They can only dream of defeating it. <BR/><BR/>However they are best able to resist Zionist aggression and crimes.<BR/><BR/>Behemoth, I agree with "militant" but not "fanatical" in describing HA. <BR/><BR/>Do you think that a peacefull Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156076438408881952006-08-20T08:20:00.000-04:002006-08-20T08:20:00.000-04:00One has to wonder if decades of failed peace plans...One has to wonder if decades of failed peace plans combined with decades of violence have left people in the region to believe that violence is the only solution.blankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076471580399507200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19435968.post-1156039852383896782006-08-19T22:10:00.000-04:002006-08-19T22:10:00.000-04:00I'm talking group vs. individual.The organizationa...I'm talking group vs. individual.<BR/><BR/>The organizational structure itself has become just as uncompromising, violent, and religiously deep-seated as the likes of the IDF. I qualify that as "fanatical, oftentimes militant." Just read their charter or look at their flag. It wasn't designed to be an expressly peaceful organization in the same way the American Minutemen were not "peacekeepersTexas Bankruptcy Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644790181739712999noreply@blogger.com